
The CHRISTIANing Podcast
The CHRISTIANing Podcast
Ep.59 - Processing: Roe v. Wade Pt.2
Well, it actually happened. After the leaked draft opinion that sent shockwaves throughout the country and created hope or fear that a pressure campaign could dissuade the justices from following through, Roe v. Wade is officially overturned. With this momentous event being experienced in two separate experiences, Kirk adds to his previous thoughts as he processes the variety of reactions on both sides of the aisle. Enjoy listening to unfiltered thoughts that come from a perspective that is completely unique and not reflected in any of the popular Christian commentaries regarding abortion. Tune in, you will not be disappointed.
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SPEAKER_00:right, everyone, and welcome back to the Christianing Podcast. Thank you as always for joining us today, whatever day, time of week, time of day it is for you. I just appreciate the contribution and the participation here. As we're about to jump into another processing episode, just a quick housekeeping. This may be the last episode for a few weeks, doing our annual summer big July vacay. So for sure, two, maybe three weeks, you might not be hearing from me. So I wanted to throw one more episode out there. Just again, because the whole world's on fire, Roe v. Wade decision was made official. If you tuned in to Processing Roe v. Wade Part 1, if you haven't done that yet, you might want to flip back a few episodes, get into that. That was recorded right after the Supreme Court draft decision was leaked. So this kind of builds on that a little bit and adds value. Quite a bit more context. Again, not polished, finished thoughts here. More just me thinking deeply through this stuff. I don't know. I've been really thinking and praying through the Roe v. Wade stuff. And had an initial reaction. Was processing through when the draft decision was put out. And really, you know... You kind of heard those raw, unadulterated thoughts, and then this time around when it was official, it hit me in a completely kind of different way. So hopefully these two episodes together give you a pretty rounded perspective from a lot of different places. Again, I apologize. I've got three kids running around the house. I'm outnumbered. I can't hide. Even one of my kids is out of the country and I'm still outnumbered here. And so you'll probably hear them running around and you'll hear them coming through on the audio. Do the best I can, but I'm not... I'm not going to, you know, recording little podcast episodes, I'm not going to get in the way of my kids enjoying life. So just kind of like a baby crying at a church service, just again, like I heard one pastor say, every time I hear a baby cry at a church service, it just makes me appreciate that mother who chose life. Again, a little apropos for what we're discussing today, but let's dive into just, again, some raw, more raw, unadulterated thoughts, not finished, but stuff that's bouncing through my head. Again, it's not so much the decision itself, the Supreme Court decision. It's more what's, I think what's really more important is to process through how people are responding to it. So one thing that did pop up that I do want to start right off at the top that popped up as I was you know, kind of reflecting on the finality of Roe v. Wade being officially overturned and then seeing a lot of different responses to that. I want to make sure I added something that I don't think came through probably clear enough in processing part one here, but I want to make sure I get this, you know, out in the airwaves for sure that I've I 100% am celebrating this decision so I do I try my best to be as open and approachable to a wide variety of perspectives on pretty much as many issues as possible so that's why you know I always I always challenge you know a whole variety of perspectives but on this one I do want to make sure I'm abundantly clear because this this is a this one's important to me I've I celebrate this one unashamedly. I personally, my feeling, my opinion about the matter is I try to operate my entire life from a fully biblical worldview. I believe it is a sign of the healthiest of societies when there are clear protections in place for innocent life. That's the way I feel. Now, I do want to be clear. I do recognize that simply overturning Roe does not establish clear protections for innocent life. However, it's a big step in a healthier direction, in my opinion. And so I, for one, am all for that. And I would be this way in any society, any country that's... I'm a citizen or a participant in, really from a biblical worldview, the protection of innocent life. And in this case, in my opinion, is the innocent of innocent life. They had zero opportunity, an unborn child, zero opportunity to contribute to the fall of man at this point. They have had zero opportunity to... to showcase and manifest their own immorality and sin nature. They're there, they're living, heartbeating, all that. I am a believer of life at conception. I do understand that there can be a lot of nuance to that, so I'm not trying to articulate a I'm just trying to be open and forthright that I want to make sure I'm on record with those that are humbly celebrating this step in our country's direction. Again, recognizing, like I said before, this doesn't prohibit abortion. It just removes the federal enshrinement of abortion as a national right. And this now obviously allows states to make decisions based on where they feel their electorate sits on this issue. So me sitting in California, I am in an abortion haven and it grieves my heart. It grieves my heart the way I follow our political leaders on social media just so I can kind of listen and try to understand where people are coming from. But on this issue, I just... I have a tough time. It's been tough for me to really follow our political leaders. And like I say, as you guys know, if you've been paying attention to this podcast, I try to be as open-minded and understanding of a variety of perspectives as possible because I do feel like our faith allows for that. On this issue, though, there needs to be much, much more deep understanding conversation and deep thought, and it grieves my heart that that is out of bounds. It's just, this issue is completely castigated in the political light. If you're part of the Democratic Party where pro-choice earns you a lot of credibility within your base, you just have to spew the kind of rhetoric that I just don't think at all is really thought through from a scientific, from a spiritual, from a biblical, from a philosophical sense. It's not, at least I haven't heard it completely drilled down, just people get really upset when you tend to try to challenge those kinds of things and They tend to shut you down, which is disheartening because I'm all for an open, fair-minded dialogue. Because I know on this issue there's probably a lot of things that I could learn about what... motivate someone to the pro-choice position. I know there's stuff that I could learn and that's what I want to understand. I really want to understand what motivates people to the pro-choice position. I know there's pro-choice people that have put a lot of thought and some care into it. So I'm not imagining that doesn't exist. That's just not what gets really presented and that's not what really gets airtime and social media time. So anyways, all that to say that A society that recognizes and protects innocent life as a Christian, I believe that moves a society closer to the blessings of God and moves a society further away from the curses of God. Yes, that is a biblical concept. The Bible is very clear. There are things that God has already preordained his blessing towards, and there's things that he has already preordained his blessing towards. his curses for and his wrath for. It's a very biblical concept. I know we, even as Christians, we struggle with those kinds of things, but it's just you can't read the Bible and not understand these things. So I will always advocate as someone who reads the Bible has a decent understanding of it, a growing understanding of it, I will always advocate for those big, huge truths in my community and my society. So I do want to make sure that that's where people that listen to this podcast, that's where you understand I'm coming from, that the more the United States can move, not towards a pro-life political position, Because I'm not in this for the politics of it. I don't want this issue to define political victories and things of that nature. I understand that that's a piece of the puzzle. I want this position to define people's hearts, including my own. I want us to see... innocent life the way God sees it and I pray that he can continue moving us that direction and in this crazy moment of just where Christians I know just feel like the nation as a whole is just completely unhinged from its biblical moorings in the middle of this in 2022 that this is the time where Roe v. Wade gets overturned it's It's I don't know that that's a whole probably other podcast. It's a whole other thing to look at. What did it Lord? What are you up to in this moment? So, again, this is not the end all be all, but you have to stop moving backward before you can go forward. So this overturning of Roe v. Wade, I just it's a piece of us as a nation stopping from moving backwards forward. on this particular issue. So I want to be clear. I celebrate. I do. I celebrate as humbly as I can, but I do celebrate this moment in our nation's history, and I'm glad that I get to be a part of it. So let's move on. There's been a spectrum of responses that I'm sure you've been tuning into yourself. Again, a lot of this spectrum is disheartening. And I've shouted out loud to my phone, to my TV on multiple occasions. Just one instance, I was on ESPN. You guys know I'm a huge sports nut, so I check ESPN every day. And one of the headlines of a day or two ago, whatever it was, was headlining the... and showcasing the various athletes that are speaking out against the Roe v. Wade decision, the Dobbs decision. And I was just like, okay, that is journalism, that is you spotlighting a thing that's going on, but is that the only thing that's going on? And I was just trying to think of how many athletes I'm aware of that would be celebrating this moment as well. And just, again, that's, I know this is kind of a tiresome, um, right wing conservative critique is just the, the bias of these kind of mainstream sources that, that we used to, that we lean on for just kind of basic information. And that's, I was, then I was watching our local news here, um, in the desert, Southern California, and they did a whole, you know, showcase just on all the protests happening in my community and I was just like again yes that is part of it and that's totally fine and it's probably important to highlight and showcase but why I just this is what drives some myself included drives us crazy why would you not also go to a church or something that's celebrating this. And so the public can hear that there are large swaths of our electorate that are all in for this and are celebrating. And some, you know, many of us praising the Lord for what happened. And so all that to say is that's kind of, you know, is paying attention to the responses. That was one of the big things that's, that struck me is just, you're only allowed in certain media spheres, you're only allowed to showcase the frustration and the anger, which I think we're all pretty clear on. We all pretty much understand at this point. A really illuminating, you know, journalistic endeavor would be to highlight, man, who in this country is excited about this? And what really is their rationale? Let me do some interviews. Let me do some investigation here. But anyways, I do also want to say this, that as I've been paying attention to the responses, something's becoming very clear to me that I'm processing this. I'm not sure what to do. I know what some people are doing, and I know what some churches are doing. Excuse me. And I know what some religious leaders, Christian leaders are doing. I don't know if I'm on board with what they're doing, but I'm to a point where I'm willing to draw a conclusion that Christians are being preyed upon due to our concern for how others feel about us. Okay, that's a real thing that I'm seeing happening nowadays, where as a Christian, I care about my testimony. I care about my witness. It's deeply embedded in my identity as a follower of Christ. The Bible is very clear. We're to be lights on hills. We're to be a sweet aroma. So that matters greatly. To me, and I know to so many of you, my brothers and sisters out there, that we are susceptible. We care deeply. If someone from our community were to show up, point a finger at us and say, there's something about our life that is what they feel is harmful and destructive, that's like, oh, that's a big deal. That causes us to pause. I wish... Because I can be pretty forthright and truthful. I wish I could be one of those people that just does not care at all. And if you think I'm a jerk, whatever, I'll keep being a jerk. I know a lot of people like that. They just don't care. And that will never really mark the Church of Jesus Christ. It won't. We will always... be receptive to understanding how our witness is being received in the world. And we'll care about that. And leaders like myself, we will be challenged by those that are in our care and and things that we do. And trust me, I walked this a ton. I helped lead my organization through COVID. And the question every week was, how is the community going to interpret and receive the things that we're doing? And that was something I labored and lost sleep over as some of the stuff that the Lord was clearly telling us to do in service to our community was was going to be interpreted in the worst possible lens. And it was terrible. And there's just moments where we just had to throw our hands up and be like, we just trust the Lord with the reaction. But every issue nowadays is being turned into this binary choice reality of you either choose what is good and loving towards others, Or you choose what is harmful and bigoted towards others. That's where we're at in all issue. As you guys have noticed, all nuance is gone. All spectrum of where issues fall. And I believe there's some intentionality behind that. Because I know the world... secular world, secular United States, understands that Christians care about our witness. And so I do believe there's a touch. I can't, you know, what percentage, I don't know, but I do believe it's a reality to where every single issue is now where a Christian may try to be biblically faithful on something, and just our faith and our desire to be consistently faithful to what we ascribe to is turned into, oh, you're a bigot and you want people to die. And that's what you see, you know, the Roe v. Wade case being turned into, where... It's been a debate forever, but it's now been, I'll call it, COVID-tized. All of a sudden, COVID happened, and if you felt like children should be in person at school, you wanted people to die. That's where it all ended up. You don't care about... you know, the lives of the vulnerable. And it's like, no, wait, what? You know, because these are things that I was accused of as a school leader. And it's like, well, no, this conviction doesn't equal that conviction and it doesn't lead to that conviction. It doesn't. So when it comes to abortion and just my unapologetic conviction that that's I believe all innocent life, in as many circumstances as possible, should be allowed to complete its course the way God intended. I believe God is ultimately the giver of life and the giver of death. And so if a pregnancy needs to end, I want that decision to be of the Lord and as clearly of the Lord as possible. And so that's my conviction. Now, that conviction, I'm frustrated by the fact that people would use that conviction to mean that oh, I want women to die of pregnancy complications and I want raped children forced to become mothers just because I'm this evil person that just wishes evil on other people. It's getting ridiculous and it's getting frustrating and this is why I see what... I just call it the revenge of the right, which I believe we're in that moment right now. It's not a moment I'm, like, I advocate for or am proud of or whatever. Like, hopefully you guys are at this point as, like, hopefully my politics are as mysterious as ever at this point because I really... a lot of different ways and a lot of different places. And, you know, you've kind of heard my heart on a lot of things. I'm definitely hard to nail into a right-wing conservative camp. I'm definitely hard to nail down into a liberal left-wing camp. And that's the way I'm most comfortable because that's just the place where... I believe as I read the Gospels, Jesus would be equally confusing for people to kind of peg him and nail him down into social political positions. So anyways, I'll say that I'm not excited about some revenge of the right, but I'll say that I'm really getting it. I'm really understanding it. I'm really understanding where and why and how it's coming to be, because it's just people with some conservative-leaning convictions, especially when they're deeply held spiritual beliefs, it gets old, it gets tiresome. And when you can't win either way, when you're in a lose-lose situation, the only thing to do is just, hey, I'm going to stand up for things that help me sleep at night. And that's 100% where I'm at on the abortion issue. Yes, I desperately don't want my conviction of the protection of innocent life to alienate me from a diverse amount of relationships within my community. That's the last thing I want. But I also have to recognize that might be the moment that we're in. And I believe it is the moment that we're in. And so then I have two choices. I can apologize for my convictions or I can stay quiet on my convictions, which I don't believe either of them are integrous and honorable. Or I just stand up and say, this is me. This is where I'm at. And if you have to interpret it with malice and evil, then that's on you. I don't have control over that. And that's where I know a lot of people are at right now on a whole gamut of issues. And it's just because everything's been put in this binary, choose the good, noble thing that unbelieving secular world would agree with. or choose your evil, traditional, conservative, hate-filled, biblical stances and just want people to die. Have you noticed that every issue someone takes to somebody dying, every issue, transphobia, well, trans kids are going to die. No, I'm not for that. I'm not for trans kids dying. No, not at all. I would actually do a lot in my own personal power to help anybody of any sexual orientation to live. Having some biblical convictions about gender and sexuality, that doesn't lead to... hating and desiring people to die. But that's, that's just the, the climate we're in. And I, all I can say is if you're one of those, that's just tired and you know, you just, you're in a lose, lose anyway. So you might as well, you know, go out with, with your convictions that help you sleep up well at night. I, I get it. Just do it and do it as humbly as you can. That that's where I'm at. Just do it as humbly as you can. Um, So that's some of the stuff I've been picking up from the spectrum of responses. And there was this Christian response that really kind of got to me that kind of motivated a lot of the stuff that I'm thinking and processing through right now. And again, I don't want to name names. I don't believe that's good and biblical. But there's a past friend of mine who has a... has a podcast following and all this. And so I pay attention on social media to, because I really love and respect this guy. And his response to the abortion issue was, it was along this lines like, I am somebody who wants to see less abortion, but my heart is grieving for Basically, the people that are hurt by the overturning of Roe v. Wade. And that's where I was like... Honestly, that's where I just... I saw that. I read that. I listened to a little soundbite of it. And I was just like... I don't want to be there. Because I just... Like, that's... Man, I'm even... I just feel like that's trying to cater to and trying to be relevant to the wrong thing. I believe that that's what the unbelieving, you know, very politically charged up public out there, you know, they take that and that becomes and that quickly turns into an abandonment of what this person stated as his own core conviction, as far as like, I want as, as a Christian who wants to see less abortions in this world, like that's, that's kind of where you have to sit now, you know, this, this kind of desire, this, and this desire to be relevant for the unbelieving world. And, and like I stated, I do, I am aware that there are pro-choice Christians out there and, and, We're all saved by grace, so I can't categorize those people as non-Christians or whatever. I would have some deep questions, and I have friends that I would love if they would ever want to sit down with me. I'd love to just learn, really, honestly, how their worldview and ending an innocent child's life, how those go together, because I'm sure I could learn something But I'd also hope that they could learn something from me as well. But anyways, just that response, I think, hit me the heaviest when I saw that on Twitter. And I was just like, this desire to be relevant to this completely unfair characterization of People that are trying to hold biblical convictions on abortion. It's just misguided. That's the best I can say. It's just misguided at this point. And again, make your statements, your pro-life statements, and make your case as humbly as possible. The Bible is clear. As so much as it depends on you, live peaceably with all men. So that's how we go forward. As much as it depends on me. So I don't want to be an antagonist. I don't want to be another person that's just gotcha here. Let me throw this pro-life bomb moral argument that you can't do anything with. And that's not what I'm advocating for. But this like... You know, my... As an olive branch to the people that are struggling with the Roe v. Wade decision, I'm going to kind of temporarily set aside my convictions about innocent life. Like that, I don't know, that sat heavy with me. And I don't think, good thing this is a processing episode because I don't think I'm really articulating that well at all. But it was just something that... It's been sitting with me. So that's why I opened the episode the way I did. I don't want to be that guy. I want to make sure I'm unapologetic of things that I have found humbly just to be kind of immovable convictions in my heart. And then if that just ticks you off and makes you not able to be in relationship with me, there's not a lot I can do for you. That's the piece I guess I've come to. Now, if I'm a jerk, if I'm coming off prideful and arrogant and all these things, well, then, yeah, there's a lot that I need to adjust and repent of. But on this one, I don't think that's where I'm at. I can get there, so I need to be careful. But, yeah, so I did want to get– I've been processing kind of this– this kind of onslaught of pro-abortion. And really, I've been really listening because I just, I'm a learner. I want to understand where this stuff comes from because, you know, I know there's a piece of a lot of Christians out there that just, they can't even get their mind to be like, how is that ever determined to be the best solution? You know, to pull out beating heart body out of a uterus while it's alive and and you know we've at this point we've seen the graphic you know videos on abortion and things I don't even watch them because I can't because I'm number one such a softy about that kind of stuff I can't handle blood gore things of that nature so I don't need to see it all I need to do is imagine that it exists and you know but I know there's so many of them. We can't even wrap our heads around. How do you get to the point where that should be what's celebrated as the only choice or the best choice or an equal choice? How is that even an equal choice to letting that child have an opportunity to move forward with its God-given life? Because it's also... he or she is made in the image of God. And we as a society have a duty to allow as many image bearers the full potential. So I've really been trying to wrap, where is this kind of pro-abortion, where does it come from? What is going on here? What am I missing? I want to really think deeply on this. And so really what I've come and I know I'm not the first to draw this conclusion I've been having kind of I guess resisting it this is becoming kind of a right-wing talking point but I am starting to really see it and understand it this there's a desire in our society and it's a growing desire it's not like it's never been there it's just popped up but it's I know it's probably always been there at some level but right now it just is a time when it's just forefront this this desire to see the dismantling of traditional systems you know like a lot of right wing pundits call it that all they want to just tear the whole thing down and and they kind of you know say those talking points haphazardly with I don't for me not enough nuance you know as to why people are coming to that conclusion so that's where I've been processing like I'm I am I adhering to the theory um more and more but really what i want to know what's underneath that why does so many people in our society want to see traditional systems torn down it's really anything you know from the family to governmental institutions to civic institutions to um institutions of science and biology and and things of that these things that have kind of ruled the day for for the entirety of we'll just you know keep it in the united states of american history there's this just open effort to see as many things dismantled as possible and i was just kind of thinking like where does that come from And here's kind of where I'm at today. As a society, especially here in America, that's all I can speak for. We are a society that's growing more and more unsatisfied with life. And that manifests itself in a million different ways. But I just... And it can be more extreme than unsatisfaction, to hatred of life, to less extreme of unsatisfaction, to just basically a morose. It's always a spectrum, but just the general is we as a society, we're really unsatisfied with our lives. All the metrics are pointing to that. Mental health issues are going through the roof and Survey after survey, poll after poll, people are less and less happy and satisfied. And the thing we know about human nature is you bring that back to the garden when something unsatisfactory happens. What's human nature? We point fingers. We never look internally first. That is a spiritual discipline that the Holy Spirit, I believe, especially us Christians, I don't think it's... It's only available to Christians, but it's something we Christians should be good at because of the Holy Spirit in our life. We Christians, we should have the ability to look inwardly first and say, man, I'm struggling with life right now. I really don't like my life. I don't like what's going on, you know. We should look inwardly. What's off? Am I expecting something that the Lord hasn't promised? You know, all these kinds of these spiritual exercises, like again, yes, there can be real diagnosable mental health issues. I'm not saying that, but that's not the general, the overarching thing. But as we learned in the garden, when somebody eats an apple, fingers get pointed and So the more unsatisfied we come, the more we're needing things to blame. And these systems, these core traditional systems that have been kind of upheld and in existence forever are great places to blame because here's the thing, because we are sinful people and the systems are man-made systems that are executed by men and women, sinful men and women, Every system has failed every person at some point. Just think about that. Think about your own life. Your family system that God has done probably amazing things for you through. has devastated, broken your heart at some point in your life. It just has. And there's a lot of people out there that's family situations that have just been God-awful in the exact opposite of what God had intended and designed before the fall. And so, you know, think about our judicial system. Even as something as lame as I have been wrongly pulled over, and it was stupid, but yeah, it was another, it was a failure of... The police, you know, law enforcement system that identified me for an issue when there was somebody driving right by me that was such a bigger risk. And I even pointed that out to the police officers. It was just like... Did you not see this person that actually endangered people's lives? I was pulled over for lack of a seatbelt, but literally at the same moment, a car almost hit myself because they ran a red light, and I was the person that the police car hit. Now, I was wrong. I didn't have my seatbelt on, but still, to a certain degree, that's a failure of... a system, you know, yes, you should prioritize the lawbreaker that is actually endangering multiple people's lives with their behavior. And that's just me, you know, suburban white kid, you know, complaining about, you know, I know the system has broken down for other people at much, much more severe, you know, situations. So The church, even the foundation of the church, as much as it is the bride of Christ, the church hurts people. It just does because the church is a bunch of sinners saved by grace that will bump into each other. We have incorrect... understanding of scripture, specifically how they're applied in very sensitive moments of life. And I've just heard story after story after story after story of churches and church leaders and church communities just harming people. And their pain is real and their assessment of what happened oftentimes is right and so powerful. There's really no system that exists that's free from not at some point causing pain. And so for this, you know, till this point in U.S. history, we've always pointed to the greater good of these systems. And we've given those things credit above the failings that they've had. We... At our best, we acknowledge and do everything we can to fix failings while upholding the intended good that a system is trying to bring. And all that is just being... So much confusion is being thrown on that that I know there's so many good Christian people that are caught up in like... Because we don't want to be a part of a destructive system like... That's not what God called us to be. So if we're not really thinking critically through all the criticisms being levied, we can be caught up in it too. So I see amazing Christian people. And I don't question their faith. I don't question their intentions. I just see them being swept up in this kind of dismantling because... especially like this deconstruction movement of the church is like that's such a a universal thing to be like hey i'm a christian let me show you my story of how a church or church leader or church community did damage to me emotionally or or physically sometimes or you know what i'm saying that the gamut's huge and then a person listening to that be like Oh, man, let me share with you my story. And then once these stories start getting shared, and I'm not saying people are lying or anything, but if you're not really thinking critically of where does this all lead? Where does this all go? And does it take us to a place that's good, godly, and biblical? And, you know, I can be... There's... large seasons of my life where I was taken up by this kind of dismantling of traditional systems. And I was an advocate for tearing stuff down and all that stuff. And it led me nowhere. It didn't lead me closer to God. It led me further away. Not in the authenticity of... I'm not talking about recognizing harm when it's being done. I think that's great. I think God is... You'll find God there, but it's, what do you do with those conclusions once you, you know, what happens then? And that's where I think, you know, where I took it to destructive places that then kind of took me away from God, not closer to the heart of God. And I felt it. I felt the distance from God in those seasons. And so... So that's kind of, that's where we're at. And specifically, why do I bring that up when, you know, reflecting and processing abortion is there is, there has been for a long time now, a strong feminist movement. And again, I'm not trying to dishonor or disrespect feminism. I'm not, I'm just kind of identifying you know kind of using terms so there's just so you guys that are listening are kind of understanding you know kind of what what i'm pointing to there's there there has been a feminist movement of dismantling family norms and family norms being like let's you know wally i mean warren june cleaver like this kind of quintessential americana white suburban um you know, family existence. Ward goes off to work. June stays home. They have two perfect kids. And, you know, it's just those kind of Americana family norms that, you know, a lot of conservative Christians uphold and appreciate. I understand that. But there's this feminist movement of dismantling those norms due to a belief they hold women back. Like, Why is Ward the one going to work? June is just as capable. There's nothing about her gender that says that she should be the one staying home. And so, you know, it started kind of when I was a kid, just really this huge spotlight put on gender roles within the church and non-church. Like, why... Why is it women stay home and men work? So that kind of dismantling of norms, and I'm not trying to say these norms are inherently moral or anything. I'm just trying to articulate what I'm seeing and what I'm experiencing. And it all goes to this, what I believe is there's good intention in nobility because there normally is. Is this... kind of recognition of wait a minute is this system that is in place is it is it forcing inequalities not just in income but in perception of value i think that's far more important than than money is and i think that's really where you know the the movement is pointing out there you know i know there's a lot of income in inequality discussion you know things of that nature But I really think what matters most to people is the perception of inequality of value as a person. These male roles are more valuable to society than these feminine roles that have kind of traditionally been. And so one of the things that necessitates some of these gender role situations is the biology of male and female. And the fact that female are the one that carry a child for nine months, they're the ones who have the ability to breastfeed and become primary in a infant's life where the male becomes more secondary in the biological function. I'm not talking about biblical or philosophical, I'm just saying in the biological functioning of keeping a child alive, there has been just this kind of quote-unquote obstacle that this movement hasn't been able to reconcile because it's the woman that gets saddled with this biological reality and it just kind of sets the tone for the rest of that child's life as they grow and so out of that i believe is where kind of the abort the abortion movement comes is if pregnancy can be an option um women can be free to engage sexually just like men can be free to engage sexually without the biological The biological consequences, you know, again, men, we recognize we're not the one who carry pregnancies and there is a difference, but that difference is interpreted as unfair advantage or freedom for men that women don't get to engage in. And so the female, the woman, she... How do you get around that? Well, you... remove the need for pregnancy, or you give women the ability to control their pregnancies, whether they're in a position where they want to continue with them, or they need to be given the power and influence to say, no, in order for me to be equal with my male counterparts, I need to have the ability to end this pregnancy, okay? And this is really where the heart of the pro-abortion movement comes from. And I'm just saying all this, not that I agree with any of it. It's just, it's very important. I think it's huge. It's a huge skill for us all to have to really understand where people are coming from. Because like I told my friend the other day, I am of the Luke Bryan School of Sociology. Most people are good. That's one of my favorite Luke Bryan songs. By our disposition, whether you're Republican, whether you're Democrat, we're trying to to come from a good place and i don't mean that theologically because the bible is very clear there's no non-righteous no not one but i mean in a sociological like pretty much everybody i talk to that isn't in prison like their intentions where they come from is what they believe is a good outcome for them and for others and That's where the misguided and the confusion comes. And that's why we need a word of God to really speak into us on those issues. So that's kind of what I've seen really put just megaphones to this past week is this feminist movement of you are forcing a less than lifestyle on me because you are going to make me take every step pregnancy to term you are removing my as a female my ability to even the playing field with the men around me that's why there's this this cry for you know women's rights and this is the biggest you know kind of affront to women's rights and suffrage and all this stuff that we're hearing right now and so um this is where the matthew 20 principle comes in And I want to reiterate this, because this, if you're like me, like, what can I do? How can I be a part of something that can actually help? What can I do to help people see the goodness of God, even though they're bought fully into this belief system, this feminist belief system, that this that pregnancy is an obstacle that has to be removed via the freedom to have an abortion. And that's where the Matthew 20 principle, that's where I think, again, I'm so optimistic when it comes to this stuff, because I feel like we as Christians, we're so uniquely just gifted with some fundamental truths of the Word of God that we can present such a different reality when societies are working through stuff like this. And so I want to go back to Matthew 20. You've probably heard me harp on this time and time again. If Lord ever wanted me to, I'd write a book on this because it just has so much. This one passage, I think, helps us Americans categorize and prioritize rightly so many aspects of what we face as Christians today, the controversies we face. So we'll jump in verse 25, Matthew 20, 25, but Jesus called them to him and said, this is like, ah, this is, I just want you to hear these words and imagine what happened if we actually built our faith communities around this, like where just walking into our faith communities for like an hour and you would experience the truth of what Jesus is saying. He says, Jesus called them to him and said, You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them. So again, he's talking about Gentiles, those that aren't the people of God. This would be kind of equivalent to the secular, non-believing society of the United States. There's a specific way that you get great ones. He says they're great ones. Exercise authority over. Lord it over. In verse 26,"...it shall not be so among you." I repeat that phrase to myself almost daily."...it shall not be so among you. But whoever would be great among you must be your servant." Greatness in faith communities is characterized by service, by how insignificant of a position can you take that benefits other people. Verse 27, must be your slave, even as the Son of Man came not to be served, but to serve and give his life as a ransom for many. So this truth is anchored in the very person and work of Jesus Christ. So, how does this Matthew 20 principle apply to abortion? Very simple. The feminist movement is... is built on the Gentile reality. The reality is that great ones lord over and exercise authority over. So in order for you to be equally valued, you have to attain positions of authority and lordship. And we all know in our community what those are. Those are positions of status, influence, authority. popularity, those kinds of things. And there is freedoms that you have to have in order to work to up those ladders. There has to be ability that you have because it takes time, effort, and work to work your way up those ladders to achieve those Gentile positions of authority. So this whole feminist movement that sees pregnancy as an obstacle is based on what Jesus is talking about here. the Gentile way, because that is the automatic way of people that don't have clear conviction and faith in Jesus Christ. However, those of us that do and the communities that do, there should be a completely different relevance, completely different. Those that are in positions of Gentile authority These are the people that aren't revered. These are the people that aren't admired. They're necessary. So somebody has to do these roles. So in the modern American church, the position that a Gentile would walk into a church and you'd ask him, who's the most important person in this church? A non-believing Christian. Secular person is going to walk into church and they're going to point to the same person every time, the pastor, every single time. They're going to point to the pastor and say, according to the Gentile system, that is the most important person. And so don't you see how we as a faith community of Christ, we have fallen for the Gentile way? Because what do we argue about who gets to be a pastor and who doesn't? Who gets to have these positions? Who gets to be a ministry leader? Who gets to be recognized? Who gets to be the teacher? Who gets to be these positions of overture? And these positions, the Bible is very clear. There needs to be shepherds. Jesus is the good shepherd. But he is our model. He was a shepherd that wasn't celebrated and revered. He was a shepherd that was humbly crucified. That's what, oh, I just, if we as faith communities could get this to the point to where a secular unbeliever stepped in and they said, what's going on here? Wait, I can't, you guys are revering and admiring positions, people in positions that nobody I know cares about. If we could be successful in that, to where the pastor isn't the admired, revered position, but the myriad, the hundreds of other service positions that exist within every single body of Christ, the chief one of those being a mother who serves a child all the years while that child exists, can't take care of himself and yes i believe a man a father needs to be their equal partner every step of the way i'm not trying to these gender roles have been misunderstood traditionally you know i'm not going to get into that but um if all there's this is the beauty of the gospel that i've shared before is these positions of greatness in the kingdom of God are available to every single type of person. There's not a gender. There's not a race. There's not a skill set. There's not a talent base. There's nothing that every single one of us has the skills and abilities to fulfill the role of servant. What we don't have is the motivation. That's what we lack. That's what we miss. The humility and the motivation to do it. And part of it is because our faith communities don't do enough to reflect the Matthew 20 principle. We organize and experience our faith communities just like a Gentile would. We build it top down. Man, who is the revered relevant awesome communicator leader man okay let's find that person and let's train other people to be like that person and and follow their way and that it never that never ends up in a healthy place ever ever it just it doesn't go to a healthy place like this is something that it's a burden on my heart and i don't know what the lord's gonna ultimately have me have me do anything with this I don't know but I'm all in and if you know the Lord connects me to a church community that's all in with really imagining and thinking what can we do to revere and make relevant all positions of service like in a real way to where the congregation's attention is pointed routinely to those people in those positions And the pastor, preacher, teacher, that shepherd role is always in the background. And it's really part of their role to make sure the congregation isn't looking to them or at them, but looking at these Christ-like pictures on the daily basis of every single type of service. And in there, Part of those, revered, is mothering, fathering, parenting, because parenting is just the ultimate service to... Here's the problem with parenting in the Gentile. Everything that you do to be an amazing parent won't help your Gentile identity grow. to lord over someone or gain authority. None of that. Only in the kingdom of God does that stuff really matter. Because it will always be an obstacle. The service that it takes to raise a child well will always be an obstacle in the Gentile way. So this isn't just about mothering. It's about parenting as a whole. But obviously... Mothers are essential because every single person that is alive today came out of the womb of a woman. And none of us would be here without the selection of life from a good mom. And that's like... We need to be closer to that. Not marching further away, but part of it is... faith community we're not seizing on the opportunity that we have to show the world this completely upside down culture of like man i went to this church and like they go crazy over people that serve other people like they go nuts those people are the great ones those people are the most important and we know right now that's just it's lip service because it's not real because we would all say that we would all say man what a servant and then we would you know revere this celebrity pastor and continue to bombard them with wealth and recognition and identity fixes and all this stuff. So right now in our community, at least what I've seen, I haven't seen a modern church that has really effectively flipped the script on it. And I would... I know it's something I hope I get to be a part of someday, really dreaming with a community of people. And I don't know, maybe someday I'll get to be the pastor that nobody cares about. That is hopefully I could be effective in pointing everybody's gaze at, according to Jesus, who really are the great ones. anyone who takes up the position of last, anybody who takes up the position of servant of all. Why? Because that's how Jesus did it. So yeah, I think that's the most useful thing that we can do immediately. If you really want to see this cultural trend start heading a better direction, let's get in our faith communities and let's start just heralding, doing everything we can to spotlight and make relevant and revere positions of servitude and make sure moms are a big part of that, make sure dads are a big part of that, because I think that's a stereotype we need to break, that mom's parent alone. You know, Christian dads, we need to showcase to the world that... that we are all in in the rearing of children, all in, and we need to be public about it. I think that's important. So anyways, that's my meandering over an hour's worth. Man, these processing episodes are like, I don't know, tend to be so much longer. So if you've stuck with me this long, good for you. Good for you. Give me a share somewhere, a rate of review, something. I don't know, because... or pat yourself on the back for hanging in this long. So thank you. You won't hear from me for a little bit, but as this world keeps turning, there's more craziness that I'm sure we'll get to speak into soon enough. So until next time, Christian Well, everyone, we love you. Have a great, great couple weeks. Have an amazing Fourth of July. Enjoy your families this summer.
SPEAKER_01:Jesus is a friend of mine He taught me how to live my life as it should be He taught me how to turn my cheek when people laugh at me I've had friends before and I can tell you that He's one who will never leave you flat